Primal is a semantic engine

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17 Responses to “An Introduction to Thought Networking”

[...] the big skinny on Primal Fusion, you have to consult “An Introduction to Thought Networking“, today’s blog post by Peter Sweeney, Founder and [...]

Peter,

Nice post. We should talk and see how we can help Primal Fusion adavance the concept and practice of thought networking

Mills Davis

Hi, Mr.Davis
I am also very interested in this direction. Please
keep me informed. Thanks.

James Yue Gee

great stuff, registered for the beta and waiting…

Peter, the very concept of ‘thought networking’ (re: “What would happen if you could … make your thoughts tangible and concrete?”) is a very powerful ontological claim. Well, really, setting up a company to help people manage their cognitive processes is certainly based on a deep strong vision of the world of ideas that allows to invest one’s time and money into the project.
What a bold step from the ’shadows in the cave’ notion to actually making it tangible for The Consumer!

To me is sounds as if you are saying: OK, this is what our world is made of; let us move inside and deal with that stuff, learn the subtle works of the world of ideas.

At this point those who design the software to make it happen have to make the next step and visualize the mechanics of the semantics in more detail; like
1) what is the minimal cell of meaning?
2) how do those cells connect? (the configuration of the connecting structure)
3) how do they (semantics) relate to the ‘real world objects’ as we usually know them?

I would love to interview the programmers who do that so that to get a feeling of the turning the shadowy stuff into something quite tangible.

There’s much to be enthusiastic about as you “boldly step from the shadows” and launch our sturdy little ontologies onto the existential sea of meaning.

Surely, there are marvellous new worlds to discover, and perhaps you will find some caches of the rarest RDF that will fetch a fortune back in the marketplaces of the consumer’s [made-to-order] web experience.

My note of caution…an old man standing on the solid shores of history and gazing with some envy as you brave adventurers sail forth…is that most of this has been done before.

The search for meaning and its most efficient encoding/transport mechanism is something so fundamental to our peculiar species’ journey as to be a foundational attribute. For the past few million years, we have been doing *little else of note* other than figuring out how to encode and transport our thoughts.

So what’s new about this moment in history?

To my mind, the difference between the semantic web and the cave painting is that we are teetering on the edge of giving birth to an emergent *but non-human* intelligence.

Consider the way we speak of thoughts (memes) as pure objects with rich attributes that allow them to be stored, recalled, linked, and transformed through incredibly long chains of abstractions.

We have built tools that build tools that allow our (?) thought networks to establish meaning in themselves quite apart from the contextualised framework that gave them original life…ie, people. Freed from the messy constraints of carnality, this new intelligence breeds vigorously in the crisp chipset worlds it prefers.

That’s an interesting, and possibly inevitable, evolutionary preoccupation, but make no mistake…these thought networks will be increasingly NON HUMAN.

I am concerned that the semantic web that will be built to run on machines will not serve the ambitions I have as a human. And considering the speed at which we are giving machine systems proxy to our daily experience, that’s not a comforting thought.

Whatever you do, promise that you will consider the inescapable truth of “embodied intelligence”. The marvellous constellations and archipelagos of our thought networks are simply the maps of our intelligences’ meaty encasing.

Creating a thought map in the shape of a motherboard is inviting a transhuman future.

So, dear semantic sailors, please pack a few bags of hardtack humility and be certain of the masters you serve.

John, that was a very poetic piece, I enjoyed the language part of it. I loved it aesthetically probably because most of the undergirding ideas in your post are close to my vision.

To account for what I read:
1. “most of this has been done before”:
I see your point, yet we cannot step twice into the same waters; this new try into ontology of meaning is performed with the idea of using that ‘new world vision’ in a very materialistic way – with a purpose to create a software to automate finding (sorting through) meanings, and may be bear new ones. It looks like you think the same, because you ask:

2. “what’s new about this moment in history?”
your answer is: “we are teetering on the edge of giving birth to an emergent *but non-human* intelligence”, to which I agree.

From that you make the next step and warn us: “the semantic web that will be built to run on machines will not serve the ambitions I have as a human”.
Which sounds similar to the messages sent by Isaac Asimov and the “Matrix” authors.

3. John, your concern is widely shared. Pondering on the problem for awhile yielded in this train of thought:
– our civilization has taken the “techno” route for its development, which involves a new type of dividing the society into castes (strata); a politician, a bureaucrat, an engineer, a manager, a technician, a salesperson, a banker need so much specific knowledges and training, work related skills that it is impossible to be encyclopaedically knowledgeable nowadays.
– what is worse, our current culture assures us that it is not so; more than that: we are sure that the age of the Internet and IT technologies allows more freedom to learn and know more than ever before.
– the new emerging tool – IT related stuff – cannot do nothing wrong; it is rather that humanity does not understand the ways we operate and tend to blame the pen for the text we are writing.

I hope that this project by Primal Fusion – and similar endeavours – of trying to understand how we think will help us find a better way.
The good news is that there is a technology of cracking newly emerging problems, something that involves many high-end experts of diverse fields of knowledge. It will need some funding and will power to go there.

Anyway, my answer to your concern is: let us focus on discovering how our meanings etc emerge within society; it is me (humans) at fault, not the tool I use.

You write very well.

I applaud your answer to Michael. We share the tragic view of how our efforts tend. I am you came back with the fundamental notion that the tragedy does not arise from the tool, but out of our human decay. I would go even further and say that we should assume a transhumanist frame for considering our human definition. Those discussion are taking place and the computational application needs to relate in a substantive way.

I only have a passing knowledge of such organizations.

Since six people got motivated to dialogue here, let me introduce the next step:
– take advantage of the fact that humans are in full control of the means to resolve the problem.

Yes, let us step forward from the fundamental – aka purely theoretical — assertion that “the marvellous constellations and archipelagos of our thought networks are simply the maps of our intelligences’ meaty encasing” to actually come together and do it – it, whatever-the-progarmmers-want-to-accomplish-with-the-web.

Here is the tradegy (or is it the irony?) of the situation:
– at least two people have to work as a team:
1) an expert in filosofy (metafizics, ontology, logics, thinkng tools, history of science), organizational development (facilitation and KM), semantics, human psychology and fiziology, and
2) an expert in IT (Maths of all kinds, all types of software architecture).
3) well, probably we will need a rep from the customer per se: a guy/gal who will actually be the ultimate user of the end product.

Anyway, here is the blueprint:
Guy # 1 brings in a certain set of tools to do the following:
1) organize the mental efforts of the team, guide them into the needed direction;
2) bring to the table all the human related knowledge including the model of the human Mind (knowledge sharing and creating, expertise borrowing, mutual understanding, etc);
3) supply all the necessary thinking tools to guys #2 and #3.

Person # 2 will create whatever s/he will see it necessary to create.

Person # 3 will test the result.

The knowledge and expertise in need is so specific that one person cannot do all the three things.
If you do not agree, you can try to teach me your IT wits in this blog:)
Similarly, I cannot explain to you the works of that mind sharing trick without a series of lectures and seminars.

I am not sure whether the folks who got their diploma in Math will take the words of a linguist seriously. C.P. Snow was damn right in his “The Two Cultures”…
…what a wise book…

In my view-point, this i si somehow related to the area of
“Personal Information Management”, especially “Decentralized Personal Information Management”. How do you guys think about it?

James, please, clarify:
– do you mean that Semantic Web is related to Personal Information Management
or
– Personal Information Management is a technology to solve fuzzy problems to organize team work of experts in non-related fields?

I think Personal Information Management is a very good application of Semantic Web. And Personal Information Management, especially its extension, Group Information Management, can be used to organize team work of experts in related or non-related fields. Thus more communications with Personal Information Management would be helpful.

James, I googled up Personal Information Management (PIM) and find that PIM is rather an ergonomics related technique, while Semantic Web (SW) is about using different languages, markers for the texts that we store on-line.
The difference between the two is, like,
– PIM is about what shall one do about sifting through data and suggests different types of storing for different data (keep your calendars separate from your poems), and iti is for one person only;
– SW is about coding (programming) our texts differently so that anyone might be able to discern calendars from songs.

Did I get it right?

The technique to solve fuzzy problems that I refer to is based on 30 years of research by a huge group of linguists, psychologists, educators, logicians, filosofers, and engineers that ensures that the best solution is found to problems like:
– shutting down a faulty nuclear power station;
– designing the strategy and all the nuances for starting a new city;
– ecological problems (like saving the Baikal lake);
– developing a market strategy/policy for new commodities.

I have a feeling that PIM is similar to SW in a very generic sense, but eventually they address different problems. Does this seem correct to you?

Michael, I agree with you. As I said, PIM is a very good application of SW. I think SW is dealing with more general problems, while PIM is dealing with more specific problems. Furthermore, PIM is a very good base to build up thought networks for individuals and groups. Along with the technological development, PIM can also deal with text, not just data. So its application scope will be much more broad.

Michael, may I have your email address? So I can email you more info about PIM. Thanks.

James Yue Gee

Sure, James: it is mchumakin@list.ru.
Very often it makes more sense to talk eye-to-eye.

I spent many years working on various mind theories and conducting research on how actually our mind — or consciousness — or pure reason works.
After that everything related to mind is seen in a bit different perspective.
Amazingly, IT folks invaded this mind related topics without knowledge of what has been done there before.
If we were able to feed them those previous knowledges it might save tons of time and effort.

Thank you so much. I will contact with you.

James

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